ESPN’s Katie Nolan recently argued that WNBA players are underpaid.

Now, you could argue that they aren’t, given the WNBA’s inability to bring in a lot of revenue. That’s a discussion worth having.

This rebuttal video claiming Nolan used “alternative facts,” on the other hand, is full of ad hominem arguments and alternative facts of its own.

I commented on the video. I’m not sure what happened to the comment. It’s certainly buried by a bunch of the usual nonsense that would be right at home on an incel Reddit.

I saw a t-shirt the other day and it read: Marriages don’t fail. wives fail

Who needs facts when you can wear makeup.

HA HA HA HA HA girl athletesWomen should just stay in their lane. Cook, clean, and raise the kids.I don’t care what profession, or talent it is MEN are better at it.Since the dawn of time the best writers, philosophers, scientists, engineers, athletes, doctors, lawyers, politicians, soldiers, carpenters, psychologists, bankers, etc. have all been MENHell even the best chefs in the world are MEN.Face it ladies, it’s a mans world. Always has been, always will be. Now go make me a sammichLMFAO

Women always have their hand out to men expecting us to provide. It has been that way for thousands of years. If the really want to make NBA money they should go try out for the teams. There is no law restricting women or anyone from trying out.

but Katie Nolan is hot so……. I didn’t listen to her anyway (joke)

Put some panties/booty shorts on and we’ll talk

And there’s the usual “liberals don’t like facts / SJW” nonsense and the complaints that the NBA is trying to “shove the WNBA down our throats.” Yeah, OK.

You should be able to get to my rebuttal by following this link, though it apparently glitches in Twitter.

In any case, here’s what I said …

I don’t mind a factual analysis. You take it too far by saying Nolan “lied” or “hasn’t done any research.”

Your historical notes are flat-out wrong. NBA teams give away tickets, too. I once went to a Wizards game on company tickets and had a fun conversation with another guy across 10 empty seats. We both were there for free, and they couldn’t even give away the seats between us. The announced attendance was close to a sellout — just as it often is in many sports.

Also, better pay WOULD help the talent level in the WNBA. A lot of players worldwide don’t bother with the WNBA. (I’m tempted to say “you didn’t do any research,” but no — you just didn’t realize this point.)

And you’re DEAD wrong about the Mystics and the WNBA final.

http://mystics.wnba.com/news/mystics-advance-to-the-wnba-finals-for-the-first-time-in-franchise-history/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2018/09/05/all-aboard-the-washington-mystics-bandwagon/?utm_term=.bfb9f41ee4c0

Other points are strong. I’d again say she didn’t lie or fail to do any research. You just found some other points that are also valid, and it’s up to us to weigh the evidence.

And while your personal attack on Nolan at the end is unwarranted and comes across as male insecurity (not to mention an ad hominem argument, a logical fallacy — and we men are supposed to be good at logic, yes?), it’s fair to ask why women don’t do more to support women’s sports. Why are most NWSL owners men, for example? (Granted, men have a lot more money in general, but there are indeed some women — far richer than Nolan — who can help out.)

But your commenters are douchebags. Waaah, waaaah, feminists are ruining my life. (They’re not. You guys are just snowflakes.) And “lesbos”? “Broads”?

Look, you’re threatened by smart women. Deal with your insecurities and quit taking them out on the rest of us. No one’s forcing women’s sports down your throats. You don’t have to watch. You can still watch every NBA game you want.

So no — these aren’t “blatant lies.” You’ve just got issues, dude.

A day later, I think I was too nice.

4 thoughts on “My rebuttal to the dudes claiming Katie Nolan used “alternative facts” about WNBA

  1. He addressed all of her points and refuted them quite well. You claiming ad hominem is not only a bit misguided and incorrect, but is also what’s known as a fallacy fallacy. He criticized her, yes, but to misconstrue that criticism as some sort of personal attack devoid of an actual argument (especially after he addressed all of her other points) is fairly weak for you to take issue with it. Even if we agreed that it was an ad hominem, it doesn’t invalidate everything else he said in the video.

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  2. Thanks for the feedback. Do you have any thoughts on the factual points I raised or my argument that “blatant lies” was way too far for what is essential a dispute over interpretation?

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  3. You claimed ad hominem on his part; meaning, that he said the reason she is wrong is because of a character flaw or limitation (e.g. Katie does no do research, hence her arguments are wrong). But, his rebuttals involved him arguing against the fact as opposed to her character. Therefore he cannot be criticised for ad hominem.

    On your points about him being wrong about free tickets being given away. Again, that wasn’t;t the root of his argument, he said that 22nd year attendance was greater for the NBA than the WNBA. He did not say that Katie was wrong was because the NBA gave away free tickets.

    Again, I am not siding with them, necessarily. I haven’t done enough research to take a stance. But, your rebuttal is wrong and I was merely pointing the out. Why? you may ask, I’m that fucking jobless

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  4. To address your rebuttal using several points:

    – his main argument was that Nolan made several false statements, which she did. The biggest ones being the overall wealth of the WNBA vs. the NBA as a reason to have equitable share of revenue. She misstated the facts, pure and simple. The NBA makes money and the players get a big share (as it is a “collective” bargaining agreement with the entire league, not teams.) The WNBA does NOT make money, so it makes sense that if they want a bigger share they will have to grow revenues to cover expenses.

    – “I once went to a Wizards game on company tickets”. You use that as an example of “free” tickets. The company PAID for those tickets. When a sellout is announced, it means that the seats were SOLD, regardless of whether they were attended. Happens quite a bit. Big difference between that and a post for “seat fillers” as shown in the video.

    – “A lot of players worldwide don’t bother with the WNBA”….. Such as?

    – The note about Nolan not supporting the NBA is quite fair based on her “passionate” monologue on the league’s issues.

    – “I’d again say she didn’t lie or fail to do any research. You just found some other points that are also valid, and it’s up to us to weigh the evidence.” She lied about NBA vs WNBA attendance and the NBA vs. WNBA tv contracts in year 22. She lied about the financial comparison between the leagues and it’s relevant to player share. No way around that.

    There are I’m sure great discussions to be had about the WNBA and its future success. But Katie made a quite poor one that is really indefensible. I would encourage better, more informed people to try to make that case in the future.

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